Curse

LifesRestorer · Sep 16, 2008, 10:33 PM // 22:33

was never about the ability to keep the ghost up, it was about the ability to interrupt theirs until the end of the game. This was a player problem though, as i explained in Kyp's thread - People are morons

Also, Song fixes interrupt fests for morons too

Morgoth the dark · Sep 17, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Borat, you forgot rend / gaze of contempt

and sin spike.

wuzzman · Sep 17, 2008, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

tombs today is built on puggable builds.

Back then, builds were determined by a two things.
Guild
Pug

Guilds
-----
Good guilds always had thier own build, something they made, and they run.
Bad guilds copied, and worked hard to be able to run those builds

Pugs
-------
Try to copy a guilds build
Run one of a handful of well known builds
Run bottom level trash

Today unfortunatly, creativity is gone.
People choose aoe over splittable characters for cap pts. And after a few months of this, people believe this to be the only way to play HoH cap pts.

Ward v foes is the only real snare (say hi to aura of stability for killing relic runs)

"Top" guilds choose to run a pug build, when they could easily run thier own

======
And I hear you about everyone taking a rt or n/rt. But WoW is too strong to not take (nerf plz), and use it to babysit the ghost. Putting it on a rit is just because there arent any other options that give you the same toolbox a rit does.
a) WoW
b) party heals
c) 2-3 spaces for utility skills, just most ppl use standard splinter rts

Just another example of anet overbuffing something that doesnt belong.

anet haven't nerfed enough skills. We need more nerfing. People still play this game, we should nerf more so that they can all play pve instead

Killed u man · Sep 17, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgoth the dark

Borat, you forgot rend / gaze of contempt

and sin spike.

I think you didn't get the point of my post.

I was talking about old-school HA.

If you think people brought [Rend Enchantments], or even had [Gaze of Contempt] back then, you should wiki the some skill descriptions

But yeah, now, Hyper-defense won't be as bad as in the old days.

Once again, there is so much Monk hate nowadays, aswell as OP spiking builds, a team with 8 Monks could get their Ghostly taken down in under a minute being pressured/spiked by 2 teams...

Morgoth the dark · Sep 17, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I think you didn't get the point of my post.

I was talking about old-school HA.

If you think people brought [Rend Enchantments], or even had [Gaze of Contempt] back then, you should wiki the some skill descriptions

But yeah, now, Hyper-defense won't be as bad as in the old days.

Once again, there is so much Monk hate nowadays, aswell as OP spiking builds, a team with 8 Monks could get their Ghostly taken down in under a minute being pressured/spiked by 2 teams...

you mean tombs in that case

yea good old days

Ate of DK · Sep 17, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Back in the days the "hyper-defense builds ran" had 5 or 6 monk elites in their build because the normal damage skills could provide enough damage to kill the enemy ghost and hold the altar...

I remember playing some air-spikes myself when I was r1. Matches took forever. Actualy I'm glad that those times are over. But instead of "hyper-defensive" it passed "balance" and I think it's to far towards the "too offensive"-side now. I refer to Kyp's post where he says that people bring nothing but AoE damage on capture points maps because it works.

Kyp Jade · Sep 17, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

One of the more sad things, is teams that have the most aoe, usually never win. Because they always dump thier aoe at the wrong times, forcing the wrong team off the altar.

Free Sigils · Sep 19, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Most people get that they need big Fire Damage. But so often I see AoE being dropped on the one guy apart from the central melee, or dumped when everyone's kiting out, or all over the wrong team.

=/

newbie_of_doom · Sep 22, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Back then, builds were determined by a two things.
Guild
Pug

Guilds
-----
Good guilds always had thier own build, something they made, and they run.
Bad guilds copied, and worked hard to be able to run those builds

Pugs
-------
Try to copy a guilds build
Run one of a handful of well known builds
Run bottom level trash

Still that way, just the 'good guilds' are gone.

Th Fooster · Oct 20, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Meh.

Im remembering the good old 4 way alter hold days. When halls was 5 way, and 2 teams would have to fight it out in teh antechamber. along with all the memorable builds
back then... SB infuse... aegis chain... (yes monks used to know how to chain aegis!)

Going agains REAL iway.. the dual orders stacking up and uin nerfed soul reaping giving necro healiers infinite energy along with iway triggering off minions.
We didnt have no fance healers boon monks back then with fast casting party heals.
you had to rely on the aegis chain.

Anyhow.. enough of memory lane. my point is.. those memories come form pre-factions.
when we had only prohesy skills. and look at the state of HoH back then. it was popular.

Why?

well.. because it was new at the time for one.
no one had rank back then so there was no rank discrimination
people were learning skill synergy on new levels. keeping them entertained.

Then factions came out.
New skills. more bells and whistles.HoH was still healthy back then, so it didnt really refresh anything it kept the ball rolling.
Then A-Net made it 6 man. this was the beginning of its decline. Though it survived the 6v6 phase, the game was starting to die out regardless of the 6v6 change.

Why?

People werent entertained anymore. by this time they knew skill synergy and various other builds that got nerfed over and over yet iway remaind un touched at this time.

That pissed alot of players of. Izzy nerfed my monk and my ele and let iway run rampant. people began to get discouraged. 6 man teams didnt quite have enough options availale on 48 skill bars to really do what they wnated with the game.

Back to 8v8 and kill count was done away with and poof! Nightfall comes out. more new skills. more bells and whistles. people were entertained again (for a while)
and then it died again.

You see? when discussing the state of HoH, we cant narrow the converstion down to the current meta or FOTM or this particular skill or that OP build,

People in general are not entertained anymore. They are bored and pissed off.

Why pisssed off? Because its agrivating facing the smae 5 builds day in and day out.
and what do we expect anet to do about it?
We scream nerf!
Nerf this! nerf that! nerf anythen exept my persona build so i can win.

THere is that word..
WIN

winning is entertaining.

How can anet rejouvenate a game that it will abandon within 2 years?

Dont forget A-Net is a business. they look long term and short tearm.
Ane they are talkin about not supporting GW1 6 months to 1 year after GW2 is released.

im not saying they dont care anymore.they do, sort of. In order to rejouvenate HA,though the way we would like to see is..
we would need the folowing:

Several new maps
New victory conditions in HoH
A new skill set for each profession (maybe PvP only skills like they have i npve now)

this may re-entertain the comunity for another 6 months to 1 year. nought time to get GW 2 out. However.....
In order to do something that large,they would have to take people OFF of making guild wars 2, and making new maps for soon to be obsoliete game, anre re program new skill sets,(roughly 100 new skills in total) and implement new game mechanics for victory conditions. in fact, you may as well make a whole new game.

0o..o0...0o
like.. GW2!
s0 you see.. anet was way ahead of us. they forseen this a year and a half ago. In fact, GW2 was roughly being sketched out waay back in prophecy days, buyt at the time they decided to jsut add stan alone chapters.
THey knew however after a while that the state of PvP in general would come to this.
Not to mention new games coming out that they need to remain competative with. Like D3. how may of you are itching for that one to come out?
So from a business point of view, its not efficient to do any more major overhauls just to keep us entertained short term like this. instead, they invest in GW2.

In summary, the state of HoH wont improve much and its not really anets fault or the metagames fault or this or tahts skil being OP.

HoH is in its state now because we fickle humans are not entertained as much as we useed to be and we are bored.

Kyp Jade · Oct 20, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Hmmm, I just got crit for over 9000 by a wall of text... the first half was relevent though, the rest was redundant.

HoH would be much improved if hero battle maps were removed,
put broken tower in, as either 1v1 altar hold or 3way kill count (kill count early in the rotation would help keep a lot of trashyish builds from later maps on during busy times of day) return sacred temples

Rotation should be

Underworld (1fame)
Broken Tower (3 fame) //4 total
Unholy Temples (6 fame) //10 total
Courtyard (10 fame) //20 total
Sacred Temple (15 fame) //35 total
HoH (20 fame) //55 total
consec wins up 5 fame per win capping at 40 fame per win.

FORBID SKIPS compeltly until unholy temples is passed. Preferably with this small rotation skips will only happen during the dead australian times. If there arent enough maps to play during euro peak hours either repeat sacred temples (good teams wont mind, every decent player loves this map) or let them wait in the vault.

Also, sacred temples should be brought back regardless
/discuss sacred temples
(time to ninja this thread)

Th Fooster · Oct 20, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

I fail to see how changing the rotation would keep the paleyr base entertained.

How would they rejouvenate HA?
as for eliminating skips i partialy agree. However not for the same reason. the trashy builds would not be stopped. they will adapt..

I do agree with skips being stopped for the simple fact that each team should be forced to face 1 anialatoion map.. 1 split map and 1 relic map MINUMUM before advancing to halls.

This may force teams to incoprerate every element of team dynamics into thier build.
Trashy builds (like ele ball) will be forced to adapt, or lose.

What if they made teh very first map a relic map? or a cap point map?
Ele ball would never form again, and low damage and high defense teams would at least make it to round 2. Yet after all this, we would still be bored.

The heart of what i posted says basicaly HoH is in this statebecause we are bored, and blaming other minor things such as skill nerfs and map changes. We need a new game.
and its coming. im not really looking forward to running around as a stupid charr or an asuran in GW2 by hey- i can still choos a human race.

Ther needs to be a much bigger perspective on things to really see the big picture on the overall state of the game.
YES halls does need a breath of fresh air to keep us entertained untill GW2 is out.

and that is the point of this thread is it not?
what will entertain us...

Kyp Jade · Oct 20, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Your worse than borat is when someone disagrees with you. Except no one was actually disagreeing with you. Stop being so agressive

Smaller rotation is needed, good players should not be able to form a randomway gank team, luck out in UW, skip to HoH, gank holding team.

Losing half the annihilation maps is needed, they are the only reason trashy builds stay in the meta long, with most of them gone people will actually have to do stuff other than roll thier face on the keyboard for 6 fame.

A early kill count is advisable, kill count succeeded in keeping a lot of stupid things away from halls. Borat will be happy that only the very good rangerspikes can get past this 3 way map, bad rangerspikes cant kill as fast as a normal team can, and certainly have trouble pressuring teams on the run. Only times spikes do especially well is when people are afraid to start the game before 0:30. Ritspike did well due to its aoe nature only.

Also, make your points once, clearly, with support. Your walls of text say the same things over and over.

We Dont Accept · Oct 21, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

lol i want bspike back dualshot lightorb isnt nerfed IMO btw channeled strike=fails 2second cast=eat shame+Diversion spike fails
=730 damage high sheild set+morale=730+light damage sheild=40health reduced imo so terribad spike
btw I MISS OLD 6v6 tombs and beating old iway so many memories...arggh guess i gota own more iway

lol!

Edwards · Oct 21, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

I agree with bringing back Broken Tower and Sacred Temples, those maps were fun.

shoogi · Oct 21, 2008, 01:09 PM // 13:09

The worst map is HoH cap points, as 100% of 3-way hoh cap points matches result in a gank.

Kyp Jade · Oct 21, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takida

I guess the biggest problem with HA is HoH.
By fixing HoH i suggest:

* 6 Minutes Altar Holding:

* Res every second minute
Ghostly Resses EVERY MINUTE ( no spike ghost after 2 minutes so they lose

)

* Song does not work on ghostly, So you can keep the 3 sec capping time. (Though i would like 5 seconds best)

Also:

* Map Rotation:

Underworld
Broken Tower
Unholy Temples
Golden Gates
Courtyard (With same changes as HoH but add a Priest)
Sacred Temples
The Vault (add something fun to it)
The Hall of Heroes

Non retarded Skill balances every month!

Quoted for Emphasis... maybe I should double quote

Cap pt in the last map is really dumb, especially when I win 26red-22blue-22yellow, and get accussed of ganking the blue team when I cap thier base at 3:01 because they wipe in aoe at the center (Im also holding my base and center base). Keep in mind this is one of the better teams thats accusing me of ganking.

Relic run is ok, but still stupid, while a 1v1 relic like unholy or sacred is unnaffected by the game engine too much, this 3 way is just horrible when it comes to capping last. Between rubber banding and all of the extra players being around, this is a stupid 3 way objective, without the addition of ganking.

King of the hill is the capstone of turtle tactics. Res every minute with full energy should be every 2 minutes, or leave it as every 1 minute but use a priest., also
weapon of gayness (warding)
song of conc
and to a lesser extent PD, then ghostly ->5s cap
need nerf batting

Also, sacred temples should be brought back
/discuss return of sacred

IxiRancid · Oct 22, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Rotation should be

Underworld (1fame)
Broken Tower (3 fame) //4 total
Unholy Temples (6 fame) //10 total
Courtyard (10 fame) //20 total
Sacred Temple (15 fame) //35 total
HoH (20 fame) //55 total
consec wins up 5 fame per win capping at 40 fame per win.

Ok, with this I must /agree, it would stimulate people to play HA simply because of titles (ah yes... and the emotes, indeed).
Check PvE segment - almost every possible implementation was made to make grinding easier and for folks to max-up ASAP -> gettin' rdy fo' GW2

la_cabra_de_vida · Oct 22, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

You can thanks izzy for the abundance of spike build with sb on 5 sec recharge and no ones brings prot spirit.

Kyp Jade · Oct 31, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

random thread gets necromancered

HoH = teams face off, hoping thier bomb goes boom before the other teams bomb does

sad time to be a monk im sure...